I stumbled on this from Google and wanted to say thanks for posting

Thanks for posting this

The ‘remember’ thing is working for ME, EITHER! =-o =-o Shocking.

Next question: What is a TopText Link?

“Dang feminists”!!

#1, the ‘remember’ thing, never works for me.

#2, I finally will start commenting on here, after the idiots have left.

#3, Being a female, I love paying. I do expect that when a guy is taking me out, for him to pay. But one of the coolest things for me, is just going “hey, my treat this time.”. Heck, it can even be when I’m out with my girlfriends. It makes me happier! I haven’t a clue why. But if a guy is polite, opens doors, pays for you. It is a major plus. But then again, my neighbor (dang feminists), thinks that it is INCREDIBLY insulting when a guy holds a door open for you.

Bleh, go figure?

Whenever I select the “remember personal info” radio button, nothing seems to happen. I guess my cookies are broken or something.

I’m glad you all like my post(s). I have a lot of extra time to spend writing stuff like that. You can IM me at xxiile (AIM) if you want to give me more praise…heh (or just chat :p). I accept donations via paypal if you want me to relay info to Scott through klp (No guarentees. This service is meant for educational purposes only. Any resemblance between users and real persons living or dead is purely coincidental. Do not fold or bend. Use this service at your own risk. If you do not agree to these terms, please do not use this service or you will face consequences.).

Agreed Mitchell has problems.

I never tried to insult anyone here or anyone’s ideas. If my thoughts offend you, I’m sorry. Also, saying that Scott had closed his mind in that regard was not meant to be an insult

I’ve not been judgemental to you people.

Supergirl: Isn’t it though? I meant it, too! You and I always seem to be on the same page around here…

Scott: I got that you meant it’s supposed to remember name, email, url…but I don’t really leave that stuff (well, I leave my name…) so I meant that it can’t really remember what I don’t give it to remember… Um, yes. This is too much. Let’s go back to talking about paying for non-dates and real dates and siblings, shall we? That was MUCH less complicated…

Thank you Nikki. every now and agian its rather nice to have a compliment!

Nikki Is very cool =^D
And so is Tom, and of course Scotty.

your “name”, “email address”, and “url” are the “personal info” it’s talking about ^_-

Supergirl’s awesome.

I checked ‘yes’ for the “Remember personal Info” question!! But, uh…I didn’t really give personal info to remember, did I…?

Tom, seriously, I’m still impressed by your post ^_^

Ok I just have to say this:

Mitchell you have problems…

Tom what you said was totally awesome!!! You go boy! ^_^

Nikki I’m glad you asked!…. I don’t really know either..

“remember personal info” means that it SHOULD remember your name, email, and URL so you don’t have to type it in each time. I never used it though ^_^

Well I’m going to go do some more studying. Unfortunately, I’m not one of those people who can just pay attention to the lectures and memorize everything. Then again, I *am* closed-minded according to Mitchell

I think biting your toenails is really, really disgusting.

Anyway, what does it mean when it says “Remember personal info?” I’ve always just sort of ignored that part…

Oh, sorry unnamed, I misunderstood.

And I’m sorry that you don’t feel the way that I do about arguing online, Scott.

Maybe it seems pretty retarded to you because you have what you need in the Bible. I guess your mind is closed in that regard. I have to come to my own conclusions about these things, so debating with people seems to help me come to more basic ideas. You already have your basic ideas.

However, it’s not like the Bible says that men should pay on dates because it’s polite, so I don’t know.

Thanks for clarifying about the ones who did not give their names, and good luck with those toenails. :-/

The GUY doesn’t end up right, my friends end up right. I date them because I’m foolish enough to think they are nice guys, but they end up being rather..well…bad.

At that point, I leave them.

So Mitchell, you want to boil off the skin and get to the core issues? Very well. I think all of our disagreements are explainable. I believe what is written in the Bible is true. You quite obviously do not. Therefore, it is impossible for us to have a silly little “argument� because we won’t even be playing on the same field.

Also, on the subject of arguing, I really don’t like arguing back and forth. I keep responding because you seem to say things about me that I feel should be clarified, but no Mitchell, I really don’t like arguing. I honestly think arguing online is pretty retarded. I’m going to go do something more mentally stimulating, like bite my toenails.

Note: I don’t believe our anonymous posters are the same, according to their IP addresses

Just curious is this unnamed person the same person as the unnamed before?

Believe it or not guys, I don’t argue here to be right. I argue to create a stronger argument. It just works a whole lot better if there are people with opposing views who like to argue too.

Normally, if I can find a person like that, we can narrow it down to one or two atomic points that we completely disagree on. All the stuff that’s irrelevant and contradictory gets picked up by the other and we realize that our argument shouldn’t contain that. I can’t fully express how gratifying this is.

Unnamed: Kind of unrelated, but do you think you date these guys who always end up being right because there’s something inherently (possibly sexually) likeable about their confidence or stubbornness, that you really don’t want to like but you end up with them anyway for that very reason? What you said just kind of meshes with some things I’ve read and observed.

You sound like one of the guys I date but my friends always yell at me not to.

They always end up being right.

Just an observation

This is kind of a bad place for discussion of these kind of things. Scott and the other people who have a clue bail out, and normally the people left don’t normally do a very good job finishing up. Points aren’t countered, etc. (As especially evidenced in the homosexuality one.) I guess I’ll have to take myself somewhere else for this kind of thing.

Oh, and in order to preserve my honor:
*Throws a copy of _Ice Age_ at Scott.*
*Throws a copy of Scott at Tom.*

But as my last saying about this topic (unless Tom still wants to go on a bit more [I did make some points two comments ago which haven't been countered]): I think you guys want to be able to fall in love with a girl that likes you, but I think love will come naturally if I find a girl that fits my criteria. And one of my criteria is for the girl to be giving. As I said before, though, (or kind of said) I don’t really need a girl to complete my life, so it’s really just kind of a maybe-make-it-a-little-better scenario.

I try my best, Jennifer. I’ve been here forver, though. I was on the Knight Hackers team (read: I’m one of Scott’s geeky, internet friends) and have been around Scott’s site farther back even.

Who’s this Jennifer girl? I haven’t seen her before.

Also, please let me attempt a translation of your words into the common tongue:
—
Actually, I do agree that you shouldn’t have to be put in the position of paying every time and then just wait to see if maybe they will pay you back. How did it end up with that? The first time you ever payed, did you offer, or did they just stand there and expect for you to pay? How old is your sister? Maybe it’s okay for her since you are the older brother and she kind of relies on you for that kind of stuff, but her friends never offered to pay in the beginning. Or did they? If not, there’s a problem in and of itself. But now that you have been paying every time, you kind of created the expectation and dependency on that. But iti’s still your choice; if it blesses you to pay for them every time then go for it!

Now: How is it okay for me to put “u” and “ur” instead of “you” and “your” but not “2″ instead of “to”? I know I went both ways in my last message. And what about “4″ instead of “for”?

By the way, who is the “Mitchell” guy? He really livens up the conversation, doesn’t he! ; )
—

Sorry, just had to do that. The first part was especially hard to read. Really, using short hands like that, might be necessary on a phone, but in situations like this, they really aren’t.

Haha, Scott like me more than you :p

Oh yeah Tom, man that was awesome. Seriously, I loved the way you wrote that.

ok I’ll clear that part up too. When I go to the movies, it’s with my sister and (a) friend. I don’t go with big groups of people. I usually go because every once and a while I just… need to get out. Anyway, they’ll usually come up with some (incredibly girly) movie and I’ll end up taking them to go see it.

All I’m saying is… At the ticket counter, if they forget to pay, I don’t make a scene of it. If they pay me before we get in line, cool. If they pay me back later, cool. I’d say they usually remember 3 out of 4 times, and the times they don’t think about it I believe are unintentional. At any rate, it’s not something that happens any more than once every few months. It’s not something they ‘expect’ either.

Mitch: I don’t think I’ll waste my time arguing with you. However, I think some comic relief can be inserted here when I quote the following line from the movie Ice Age.

“[Mitch,] if you find a mate in life, you should be loyal; in your case grateful”

actually, i do agree that u (now, how is it ok 4 me 2 put u and ur instead of you and your but not 2 instead of 2?! i know i went both ways in my last msg…and what about 4 instead of for?!) shouldnt have 2 be put in the position of paying every time and then just wait 2 see if maybe theyll pay u back. how did it end up w/that? the 1st time u ever pd did u offer, or they just stood there and xpected u 2 pay?! how old is ur sis? maybe it’s ok 4 her since ur the older bro and she kinda relies on u 4 that kind of stuff, but her friends nvr offered 2 pay in the beginning or did they? if not there’s a problem in and of itself, but now that u have been payin every time u kinda created the expectation and “dependency” on that…but it’s still ur choice; if it blesses u 2 pay 4 them every time–go 4 it!
btw, who is the mitchell guy? he really livens up the conversation, doesnt he?!? ; )

That’s very pretty.

However, you misunderstood me, I just don’t know what this means:
A relationship shouldn’t be a two part friendship. It should be the two as one; a love, am I wrong?

Not that I disagree with it, I just can’t understand it because of the wording. What’s a two part friendship?

Also, I think we’re talking about different things. Sure, that’s all you need is to make someone happy. However, from a life partner, I’d kind of expect a giving nature too. It’s not very giving to not be nice back.

It isn’t that you only do things for what you get in return (although that is what you’re saying [you get to see someone happy in return]) and it’s not that they’re obligated to do something, it’s just that they should be nice too. They shouldn’t take advantage of you.

Also answer me this: Why should the guy always pay? You say because it’s nice, right? Well, so the girl doesn’t have to be nice? Do you guys all like to go out with girls who aren’t nice to you?

If not (and if you’re sane) I think you like to go out with girls that are nice. Letting someone pay for your stuff and not giving them anything in return isn’t nice. I would want to return the favor somehow, sometime, if I could.

P.S. Let’s not bring the Bible into this. We really don’t need to segue into that, now.

[quote]
Also, I’d like to know what this means:
A relationship shouldn’t be a two part friendship. It should be the two as one; a love, am I wrong?
[/quote]

Well Mitchell, there’s your problem. Marriage is about love, and love is about unity. I’ve got a very powerful being backing me up on this too:

Genesis 2
24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be *united* to his wife, and they will become *one* flesh.

Reimbursement is not needed when a man and a women are one. Even before the point of love, men are not asking for repayment of any sort when they pay for or buy things for a women. When I give a women a gift, I get all the happiness I need when I see her face as she receives it. Knowing that someone is that much happier because of something you did is really a great feeling. I’m sure you’ve heard that human beings are priceless, because they really are. When you love someone, money is not an issue. Time, presence, and unity become the focus.

I think you both think a little too deeply about the issue…

Scott, just to make sure you understand my point, let me state a few things.

I think both parties should treat each other lovingly and with respect.

In a marriage normally couples share their money completely, so this is very different than should the guy pay for the girl’s stuff on a date.

I don’t know if your quote marks around return mean that you’re also talking about sex or what, but it doesn’t seem right to me for one party to be nice and the other not to be nice.

I didn’t say _his_ female, remember, I was talking about female company. That doesn’t refer to one female. If I would have said company from a woman, would you have said ps: if your boyfriend calls you his “woman”, he has issues ^_^

Ok, now for the grand finale:

Theme: Don’t bad character traits in girlfriends continue after marriage?

– If your girlfriend doesn’t treat you with respect while you’re dating, will she not treat you lovingly and with respect when you’re married?
– If your girlfriend doesn’t pay for your meals while you’re dating, will she not be a money-hoarder and insist you pay on half of many household things out of your own pocket once you’re married?
– If your girlfriend only does nice things to you expecting something in return while you’re dating, won’t she stop being nice to you once she feels you’re not being overly nice to her in “returnâ€Â�?

Also, I’d like to know what this means:
A relationship shouldn’t be a two part friendship. It should be the two as one; a love, am I wrong?

P.S. I’m glad you came back to the discussion Scott. The ones about sex before marriage and homosexuality got a little tedious once you left.

HA!

oops!… heh… I’m an idiot. I saw:

posted by: april somethin’

so I thought her name was april XD

Jennifer: nice thought, it was very well written. (just replace ever ‘2′ with ‘to’ and you can publish! ^_-)

April: I see exactly where you’re coming from and agree. I think you don’t understand though. It’s my fault really, I didn’t clarify it enough.

clarification: If these hypothetical ‘friends’ offer to pay, I allow them to. The thing I’m talking about is the fact I don’t *ask* them for money. I don’t even bring it up. If they want to pay for it, then no problem… but I really don’t like being at the ticket counter and saying “ok girls get out your wallets.” Is that a little better?

I disagree. Scott, don’t pay for your sister and her friends! Don’t pay when you are going out with a girl as FRIENDS! Just pay when your on a date. There ya go.

When I go out with a guy friend, just as friends I ALWAYS pay for myself. But if it’s a date then I expect him to pay. Don’t throw your money away because of how it MIGHT look to other people.

scott, you do w/e you want when it comes 2 payin 4 ur sis and her friends–who cares what others think? just remember ur not obligated in any way 2 pay, and be careful w/the whole possible “maybe he likes me cuz he’s payin 4 me all the time” kind of thing, altho if you do it 4 ALL ur sis’ friends that probably isnt an issue. guys tend 2 be kinda nieve sometimes when it comes 2 things like that–the friend may read more in2 it than there is…i know ppl whom i wont mention 4 fear of my gd health that have done it…lotsa ppl have. anyways, bottom line: ur a sweet bro just like mine and that’s notable since there really arent 2 many left in the world 2day…stay that way! idk…maybe just pay sometimes–w/e you want as long as that uncomfortable feelin when its time 2 pay isnt called “obligation”

Mitchell, I can see that you and I clearly disagree. I doubt that this can be “worked out�, so I’ll change my tactics a little bit. What if I were to say a word to the ladies now…

Theme: Don’t bad character traits in boyfriends continue after marriage?

– If your boyfriend doesn’t treat you with respect while you’re dating, will he not treat you lovingly and with respect when you’re married?

– If your boyfriend doesn’t pay for your meals while you’re dating, will he not be a money-hoarder and insist you pay on half of many household things out of your own pocket once you’re married? A relationship shouldn’t be a two part friendship. It should be the two as one; a love, am I wrong?

– If your boyfriend only does nice things to you expecting something in return while you’re dating, won’t he stop being nice to you once he feels you’re not being overly nice to him in “returnâ€Â�?

Do women really want to forever be with people with these traits? I’m not sure; it’d be an interesting question to ask, so I’m asking!

ps: if your boyfriend calls you his “female”, he has issues ^_^

You know what? I’d love to have somebody take me out to dinner with me not having to worry about anything. However, if they did this enough and I didn’t do anything for that person but let them enjoy my company, I would definitely feel like I was taking advantage of the person and probably wouldn’t respect them. (unless I had a real high opinion of myself)

It might be “polite” for the guy to pay, but it’s incredibly impolite for the girl not to reciprocate. This is about treating people like they deserve to be treated. If someone does something nice for you, whether they expect it or not, you should try to repay them the favor.

Are you people saying that if someone does something nice for someone else, that other person shouldn’t do something nice for the original party?

I agree that a romantic relationship and a business arrangement are different. That’s why one person throwing too much money one way is bad. It should be more like going out with a friend. When romance is taken out of the equation, I think people generally agree that taking advantage of someone like that is wrong. But since female company is just worth so much more than male company to a female, there’s nothing wrong with the guy paying for everything on dates.

Sneeze: I hope you don’t tell the girls you go out with that you’d do so much for their company. You’re bound to lose some respect for that. Why do you think girls often end up with jerks? Jerks don’t let themselves be wrapped around a girl’s pinky finger like putty.

I’m sorry for Mitchell’s future girlfriend (I’m sure he doesn’t have one now). It’s the guy’s job to pay, and it always has been. This started when the guy was the only one with money (and a job) and has continued because it’s polite. When I’m on a date, the girl doesn’t even see the tab. It shouldn’t concern them. They are with you to spend time with you, and shouldn’t have to worry about anything. I may be more generous than other’s because of my position(I make 5 times as much as my girlfriend per hour), but I still believe that it should be common policy to pay for a girl.

I’m really interested in your book Scott. I love your Misia blogs because I seem to really feel how you were feeling then. I’m sure I could never actually feel like that, but I do connect to the piece. It sounds like your book will be on the same type of topic, which will make it very interesting. Work quickly.

Now come on, do you really want to pay for her company? Is that what you’re paying for? Or are you giving her a gift that she should appreciate? If she doesn’t appreciate that you’re paying and merely expects it, like she’s better than you, that’s no good.

Now, I’m not talking about a relationship just for sex here, but really that would be even worse. Paying for sex.

Nikki: I think what you say has validity to a certain extent which is what my example was about. However there’s a difference between a date and just going out together to have fun and enjoy one another’s company. Really according to the dictionary there’s no difference between those two, but “date” has so much added ambiguity around it that it’s kind of hard to know what the other person expects.

Now for the person who didn’t give a name, I don’t mean “owing him something at the end of the night.” (Get your mind out of the gutter!) I mean that she should want to return the favor and at least show appreciation.

As far as dating, I guess I always kind of thought that whoever did the asking should also do the paying, and since I would never ask a guy out, he would always be paying.

By the way–I only meant before that I agreed with Mitchell about having to fill out the IM form, not about his dating/paying philosophy…

Thats awful. Paying for her means she owes you? Do you know that girls actually DREAD that! I don’t let guys pay for me cuz that’s exactly what I am afraid of, that I’m going to owe him at the end of the night. But it shouldn’t be that way.

I’m old-fashioned and I think guys are supposed to pay for girls on dates. Thats what my parents told me a true gentleman will do. But now, I’m not going to know if I’m out with a guy thats going to be expecting more or just a generaly nice guy!

I still disagree. You were a little closer this time, but some things you wrote made me cringe.

“Paying for your date’s meal is ok as long as you get paid back in some way, or she knows that she owes you.� The thing you have to realize here Mitchell is that this is what we like to call a relationship not a business partnership. Do you really go into a relationship only doing things to a girl if you expect to be reimbursed in some way? If so, I really do feel sorry for the girl. Some things (like simple manners) should be given to women without strategizing a payback. If a girl asks you to help her fix a broken backpack, do you not help her because you don’t think she’ll pay you back for your time? If you have a box of candy, would you not share it with a girl unless you know that she’ll pay you back for it? If you go to a (romantic) dinner with a girl, do you only pay for it if you know she’ll pay you back later for it? I certainly hope not. Now, I will make this clear. If a girl wants to pay and persists, then I don’t put up a stink about it. At a certain point, yes, it is very rude to incessantly argue about who pays for what. However I just pay with no questions asked, and if the girl wants to pay then she can mention it.

“…and her company isn’t payment enough.â€Â� What a horrible thing to say. I feel like closing my eyes and crying through closed eyelids here as I listen to Pachelbel’s Cannon in D major. If this isn’t the most depressing view on a relationship, I’m not sure what is. At what point is the very company of the girl you’re “withâ€Â� not rewarding? What has to happen, may I ask, for her to merit simple courtesies from you? Then again, I realize and agree that we are two different people with separate minds. You may value other things than I do. I speak from my personal heart when I say that the most enjoyable times with a girl are those simply being around her. It’s nothing special, nothing incredible, nothing unbelievable; just her. Simply being around her is (/would be) my most cherished time and the most valued experience of the relationship. The concept of not buying her dinner because being together can’t be valued is foreign to me. I’d buy her a thousand dinners just to be around her. I don’t understand where people come up with the idea that her company isn’t valuable. Then again, I guess it can only be explained if viewed from the eyes of someone who’s just in it for sex; a very sad outlook on a relationship.

Scott, I totally hear what you’re saying, and you definitely seem like an old fashioned guy just wanting to do nice things for people (even when it drives you to the brink of insanity).

However, it’s not “Hey, let me take you out for dinner,” and then “Um… What, you don’t appreciate me enough to pay your half of the bill?” It’s fine to pay then (actually it’d be really rude not to) as long as you get paid back in some way, or she knows that she owes you, and her company isn’t payment enough. Like maybe the next dinner’s on her (where she offers) or she might buy something or do something for you with more or less the same value.

You just don’t want to be paying for her company. Your company should be worth as much as hers.

Now, as far as opening doors or helping her into her seat or anything like that, there’s really nothing wrong with, as long as she doesn’t think she deserves this treatment for being just so much better than you. I guess it’s really the unsaid bargain that’s going which is what I’m addressing.

oh yeah, as far as money goes… I tried to make a burried point when I said some lines but i’ll make it clear now.

* I work. All my income from work goes right into the bank.

* I literally do not withdraw money from my bank or accounts

* I get gift money for birthdays and Christmas that I hold in cash in my room. These few dollars in gift money are enough to completly live off of for most of the year.

* In other words, I’m getting low on my gift money, but from working a lot and never withdrawing, it’s implied that I have a decent amount of money in the bank. If I really wanted a top of the line laptop, I could buy a bunch of them with no sweat… so, it’s not really a money thing ^_^

“Make your date pay for herself so you know she finds your time together valuable.” I’ve never heard such an absurdity! If you were to going to go along those lines, then you should continue to say how offensive it is when guys open doors for women. This selfish and hideous act reflects male domination and false superiority while trying to suppress girls by demeaning the value of women! Not only that but it doesn’t allow the girl to open the doors herself and burn calories, causing her to grow incredibly fat. After severe muscle atrophy the heart has trouble pumping blood through the unused appendages and eventually cuts off to the brain causing her to die earlier. Anyone who opens a door for a girl is a MURDEROR!

I’m just messin’ Mitch ^_^

I think it’s sweet to pay for your sister and her friends–I always wished I had an older brother, and I dreamed he would do stuff like that with me. But I guess if you’re only doing it because you’re worried about what others would think of you if you didn’t, then that kind of negates the sweetness.

And I TOTALLY hear what you’re saying, Mitchell…

Whoops, kinda skipped over that whole sea world section, not knowing that there would be good commentable stuff in there. Yeah, it sounds bad, paying for [girl] and Kelly.
I don’t know about that on a date common courtesy. It seems like if one were to always pay while on a date, it’s kind of like saying “Hanging out with you is more valuable to me than hanging out with me is to you, so I’ll pay for you, so it’s still worth it for you to hang out with me.” I don’t know about you, but I wouldn’t really want to hang out with a girl who didn’t find hanging out with me as valuable or more valuable than I would find hanging out with her. I guess this kinda touches on why I won’t fill out Scott’s form. Interesting, that.

Half-kidding P.S.: I might end up alone, but at least I’ll have my pride! Maybe.

Heh. I’ve had enjoyable conversations with Scott in the past, but there’s no way I’m going to go filling out his form. What kind of people would go through this, anyway, just to gain the privilege of real time text chat with this one guy. I guess they would have to be his true worshippers^W friends.

I wouldn’t buy a handheld if I were you either. Good luck on the book.

Good luck on that book man. When you finish it, I’ll be first to read it. I myself have written plenty stories, but most of which are very short. I’ve also read plenty of stories that jump around in time. I can’t wait until it’s done.
And by the way, don’t pay for your sister. It’s just dumb. Maybe if you didn’t pay for her, you would be able to get a better laptop, eh?

K…so for someone who tells me not to care what people think, you certainly care whether or not strangers think you’re not paying for your date which is ACTUALLY your sister and her friend…come now, SAVE YOUR MONEY BOY! *sigh* thats all I had to say about that.

Good luck on the book. I’m sure you’ll do better then me. I’ve started 36 stories, I’ve actually counted, and I’ve only finished one. But you’ve always been better then me at stuff like that. Best of luck!

Hey man, don’t get a PDA, there crap. Don’t get one till its absolutely to function in normal society or their smarter than you are.